Peaceful Life Radio

Mastering Conflict - The Art of Desensitization

• David Lowry

Share episode

Welcome to another episode of Peaceful Life Radio with David Lowry and Don Drew. Today, they dive into the topic of desensitization and its vital role in managing conflict. They discuss how emotional withdrawal and response management can help navigate conflicts without escalating emotions. Using relatable examples and personal stories, they explore the importance of understanding the deeper issues behind people's behaviors. The hosts also touch on techniques like the peaceful pause and reframing, as well as the challenges of dealing with addictive behaviors. Join David and Don as they offer practical advice and insights on developing a more compassionate and peaceful life, even in the face of conflict.

00:00 Welcome to Peaceful Life Radio
00:49 Introduction to Desensitization
01:38 Techniques for Managing Emotions
04:45 Understanding Human Imperfections
15:31 The Role of Addictions in Conflict
18:51 Reframing and the Principle of Imperfection
24:09 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Visit the Peaceful Life Radio website for more information. Peaceful Life Productions LLP produces this podcast, which helps nonprofits and small businesses share their stories and expertise through accessible and cost-effective podcasts and websites. For more information, please contact us at info@peacefullifeproductions.com.

David Lowry:

Hello everyone and welcome to peaceful life radio your place on the internet for living a more peaceful life I'm David Lowry and with me as always my good buddy Don Drew.

Don Drew:

Welcome back to peaceful life radio everyone.

David Lowry:

So good to have you in his studio today Don as we talk about desensitization Hey Don say that word

Don Drew:

I knew you were going to do this to me. Desensitization.

David Lowry:

Way to go!

Don Drew:

I nailed it.

David Lowry:

Don and I were saying this word before we started the podcast and we were stumbling all over the place.

Don Drew:

I'm bound to mess it up before I get done here.

David Lowry:

It's a wonderful topic and we'll more of to you in just a moment, but first want to remind everybody.

Don Drew:

Everybody.

David Lowry:

To download, subscribe, tell your grandmother, tell auntie, your nephews, listen to the program.

Don Drew:

Okay hey, what are we going to learn today?

David Lowry:

We're going to learn some things that have do with how to handle conflict using a principle desensitization. And this means that we've learn how to emotionally withdraw when we see conflict happening between ourselves and another, or among other people, not withdrawing in a negative way, but learning how to pull back that intense feeling we have that charged up feeling that we have that makes things worse.

Don Drew:

Manage our response.

David Lowry:

Managing our response, that's exact. Yeah, response management.

Don Drew:

So we'll be talking about this concept. Okay. then we're going to talk some techniques I understand. And we'll look at of different things like role of addictions, they play into techniques for managing our emotions in response to negative stimuli and so Let's get started. Tell us, David, what desensitization is.

David Lowry:

It will make good to use an illustration. Lets assume that there's a crying baby. got a crying baby, you're holding the baby and that baby will not stop screaming. It's crying, it's angry. Multiple choice test, Don. A, you yell at the baby and tell it to shut

Don Drew:

Yeah, that's really useful.

David Lowry:

Or you to B. Figure out what in the world's going on here.

Don Drew:

That can be helpful.

David Lowry:

So desensitization is really that second thing, is what's going on here? It's like developing a curiosity for, I think I see conflict here, or developing conflict here, getting curious instead of taking offense. Now the reason we Don't upset with a little baby is that we know that

Don Drew:

That's what babies do.

David Lowry:

That's what babies do. Baby's got a baby, right? And it would be foolish our part to get involved in that. But for some reason when we meet another person That concept. goes out the window.

Don Drew:

Yeah, we sometimes use the word trigger to indicate is somebody triggers something in us some the way they're talking to us, something they say that kind of thing?

David Lowry:

Desensitization is all those little things and techniques we use to remind yourself that the person we see may not be the real person that we're dealing with at any moment.

Don Drew:

I think what you're saying is that in many professions, in many ways, we are constantly working our own way through desensitization. Doctors, for instance, nurses learn how to give injections, other medical procedures that know are bringing about a momentary pain, but they know it's to help their patients. So they learn past their natural reaction to seeing pain and suffering. That might be one example. Others like social work or counselors or therapists and so on use these techniques to help their clients overcome phobias and anxieties. These some other areas we might see this play out. Okay, great.

David Lowry:

It's a real thing, because if we didn't have it, then a doctor would say, Oh, my goodness, I just give this injection. It's just the person is just going to be suffering so much and they're going to cry and, yeah, all right. So we're going to be like that doctor who hopefully they're not sadistic and saying,

Don Drew:

Rip the bandage.

David Lowry:

But what we are going to do is to say, okay we we're in a conflict situation or seeing a conflict situation, there's a dance that's about to take place and we've to through all steps, whether we want to or not, and it's okay. It's okay that we're going to go through these steps. And when it's Done, if we do our part right, it's all going to be be all right or as best we can make it. And the thing of it is we just tell ourselves yes, there's going be some discomfort here. Yes, it's going to happen. So, first of all, they're going to say rash things, and they're going to say things that they shouldn't and they're going to say things that maybe they would regret, and we're going to be tempted take it really personally and we're going to be tempted to say now I know what you really think.

Don Drew:

People will sometimes get excited themselves and in negative ways and their emotions take over and they say and do things that are perhaps surprising, shocking to an individual. And when we're shocked, quite often our first response is an emotional response. So what we're talking about here is ways of seeing ourselves experiencing that and then recognizing that we have a responsibility in figuring out how to control our response to that stimula.

David Lowry:

And behind all these things are stories that we don't know about. There's stories behind the stories. There's the story before us and then there's the story behind the story we don't know. So as a person who wants to live a more peaceful life we've to learn how to control how we respond to those things, even though they may not be responding so well. Don, desensitization requires a, type of maturity frankly, some of us Don't want to have. And, it's part growing up in this peaceful life. If you want to have a peaceful life there's certain attitudes that are helpful to adopt. And one of them is, you've got to stop being so shocked by human failings.

Don Drew:

Yeah, that's a great comment. No one is perfect and we have to to constantly remind ourselves of this, right? Because we expect people respond how we them to respond to us. And doesn't always happen. And quite often, it doesn't have anything to do with us. It's the outcome of a number of other things. They're managing their emotional reaction and we feel sometimes like that gives us a pass to respond to that an emotional level. And what we're suggesting here is that it helps to recognize that no perfect and that everyone struggles.

David Lowry:

Human failings are a part of life and living. And what I'm trying to say is that every and then you'll hear about so and so doing something that you would have never have guessed they would have Done. Maybe they stole money. Maybe they cheated on their spouse. Maybe they've Done things they're not right.

Don Drew:

Sometimes we see those things as being out of character. We Don't expect to see...

David Lowry:

Totally out of character from the person we knew. So, what do is we say I just can't believe that this person and we go off when we talk to other people, or maybe we just decided I'm ending my friendship with them. And that is a response we can make and sometimes maybe it's the appropriate response if it's been abusive to us or something. But the other point is that people do make mistakes that they are ashamed of. All of us probably have something in our life that we're of and we Don't want to talk about to other people. Part of learning about life and living is learning from our mistakes. If you learn somebody's really pulled big mistake in their life, dont be so shocked. happens. We're saynot saying's right. We're not saying you have to agree with it. Part of being desensitized is learning not to be too shocked if somebody you know turns that they've Done something they shouldn't have Done in some point in their life.

Don Drew:

Manage your response. Okay, so I've got a question for you. How might we as peacemakers learn to better desensitize our aversion to interpersonal conflict and in what we've been talking about here in particular the problems of others?

David Lowry:

So we have to put it in perspective. Remind ourselves I'm not perfect. They're not perfect. Sooner or later people are going to learn about my imperfections and I'm going to learn about their imperfections. For some reason I want people to be merciful and kind to me when I mess up. But for some other reason, I think I shouldn't have to be when other people mess up and do stuff that's not right.

Don Drew:

And I get that. But I guess what I'm driving at is that there's got to some techniques that will help us do that. What are some specific things that we can do to help us manage that?

David Lowry:

This may not sound like a technique, but I remind everybody of what we call under every roof. Sometimes the response you're seeing in another person comes from a place of pain you don't know about. You don't the history of everybody. I'll use myself as an example. So was adopted at age three. Okay. That's an early age to be adopted. But for kid, it's late enough that a kid can feel some emotional trauma and pain. I am absolutely sure that there have been many times in my life that some of the pain that I felt related to that, can't even get at, I couldn't even get at it through therapy really, is related to feeling rejected, not loved kicked of a family, losing my parents, and all the hurt and stuff that's tied it away in little box. So, somebody disrespects me, or rejects me in some way, it all goes back to that. And I don't even know the half of it, right? That's under every roof. There's something going on in everybody.

Don Drew:

And so David I'm also adopted, but I was adopted at three days I've always known that I was adopted. My dad went out of his way to make sure that I understood how I was chosen and special and so forth. And I'm that special, but he made me believe that. And that really helped me in that way. Even though we had a common experience, there are outcome was very different. Now I had other issues come up. Okay. And my mother passed away when I was very young. Every one of us has story and actually every one of us has multiple stories.

David Lowry:

Multiple stories

Don Drew:

And I absolutely agree with you, it's important that we recognize that all us have trauma under our roof, and just recognizing that is a commonality. It's not the same for all of us, but what is the same is we all have that kind of thing.

David Lowry:

We do. I have a friend whose spouse left them. Just them. And they found it very hard to trust people based off of that. They're super careful about that. As something like that would make you careful about. That pain spills over into our lives in other ways. Having this principle of saying what seeing could be tied to something much deeper than I know. Now, this isn't saying that we should super psychoanalyze and try to shrink people down and say I understand that there's something going on here that I don't know about. But be aware that the pain you see before may not be the that person is dealing with. And if we do that will help us develop some compassion.

Don Drew:

Compassion, let's talk for a minute how can understand the under every roof technique and how it helps us develop compassion. It may seem obvious the surface, but what, how's that really work?

David Lowry:

Maybe the response you got wasn't correct, but maybe it has nothing really to do with you. Don't take it personal, in other words. It requires reflection on our part to know tender points. We have to be mindful that some people may not have worked through that and we have to be there to help them along.

Don Drew:

Okay. For people who work with those facing addictions, quite often they've heard of something that's called HALT. HALT stands for hungry, angry, lonely, tired. How does that play out? What do we do with that?

David Lowry:

Well Don, it is the most practical piece of advice we could give somebody to help desensitize the situation. If you've got a kid that's acting out, maybe the thing you want to do before you go off on them is to fix them something to eat. Sometimes people are just ornery when they're tired or they're ornery when they're hangry.

Don Drew:

Yeah, I was going to say we've got a new word I know in the dictionary, hangry. Okay. You're angry because you're hungry. I guess I can see when somebody's angry, they are generally acting very emotionally and we can't always tell why they're angry. It's not always clear. When somebody's angry we understand our that response that the acronym HALT means slow down or stop, right? It means stop and think about that person, what they're going through or how they're responding. So don't automatically react.

David Lowry:

I think common sense would tell you if you see the boss yelling at somebody and the boss seems like they're having a really bad time of it. You don't want to go in and ask for a raise after that. That is the worst time in the world to do that.

Don Drew:

It may be a good thing then to remember the next time we find ourselves in a conflict that seems to occur for no reason. Perhaps it might be wise to offer someone food, drink, space, maybe just to help reduce tensions.

David Lowry:

Another thing to remember is that people in society judge some things more harshly than they judge other things. Pain is pain. When I was going through a divorce I was raised in a religious group where that's really frowned on. That's an unexpected thing for a person to do. Course, it happens all the time, and some people will say why is the big deal? Lots of people do. But maybe in your friend group that is a big deal. It's like, What did you do or what happened here? Because it's not acceptable. So sometimes society will judge a person more harshly in one context then they do another one. For instance, in some cultures to marry outside of your ethnicity is, almost crime. How could you do this to us? You can't just go marrying somebody just because you love them and they like you.

Don Drew:

I get that. And there are some things that we do. There are some people that we are that bring judgment and bring criticism and so forth on us. I remember you mentioned my wife passing when she did, I was warned by a friend of mine who also lost his wife about, I think about 10 years earlier or something like that. And Charles was telling me that people are going to say a lot of things that are really, they Don't mean it, but if they're going to say things are stupid and hurtful. And they did. To be forewarned is to be forearmed knowing that helped me go in and say, people are going to say some stupid things that I just, I Don't need to react necessarily to all of it. And it really helped me.

David Lowry:

Those of us who remember listening to one of our guests here on Peaceful Life Radio, remember that he had a son born with a disability, and people were saying all kinds of crazy things.

Don Drew:

Still do.

David Lowry:

People say crazy things because they're just hijacked. Brides can be hijacked, grooms can be hijacked. Mother and mothers in laws are not themselves. Funerals, people can be the same way, right? You just have to say, okay, I may see some stuff here today that's shouldn't be said. It's not okay that they're saying it, but they probably don't mean it. Let it go. Hopefully that helps.

Don Drew:

So talking about thing called a peaceful pause. How's that different from these other things where we've been discussing?

David Lowry:

Alright, sometimes when people say something to you, that's that's so inappropriate. A peaceful pause could be something as simple as going, huh? Another thing that I resort to this every now and then is, oh tell me more. I just have to buy time honestly. I Don't even know what to say to this thing. I just say, tell me more. Usually they will, and I get my bearings and then I'm able to move on.

Don Drew:

And not having an immediate response. I get that as well. I think that going back to that example about people would say really irresponsible or difficult things to me about losing my wife. Most of the time I just wouldn't say anything. I just couldn't respond. I knew what they were doing I knew I didn't agree with them or what they were doing-- didn't really want to validate what they said, but I felt the best thing to do is not saying anything. And, then usually the topic of change wouldn't go do something or talk about something else.

David Lowry:

You said a mouthful there, though. You said, I decided not to engage. Sometimes no engagement is the best thing.

Don Drew:

David one of the things that's related to or often connected with what we call desensitization and how it works and so forth is the problem with addictions. How does that play in? I understand according Psychology Today addiction is a condition in which a person engages in use of a substance or in a behavior for which you're rewarding effects provide a compelling incentive to repeatedly pursue the behavior, despite detrimental consequences. What does that have to do with any of this?

David Lowry:

Sometimes when people are doing what they're doing, it's coming from a place of addiction. And it's well beyond your ability to deal with. You can get angry with it if you want to. But it's the alcohol talking. Or it's the gambling talking. Or it's the lying that goes with the behavior talking. Now, of course you may have to totally withdraw from that situation, or give an ultimatum that's until this is better, we can't be together, but did you know that at least 40 percent of the people you know are probably dealing with some kind of addiction? Yes, it's very high.

Don Drew:

Huh? I had not heard that to be...

David Lowry:

Line up 10 people and there's probably someone dealing with porn. There's probably someone dealing with drugs. There's someone dealing with eating. There's

Don Drew:

You've mentioned the biggies here, but there's others like video games. I suspect it's a big problem here and then there's things like shopping. I've had a friend who basically he and his wife divorced over the fact that she could not control her spending. Right? She bankrupt them and it was it was a very tough There's of course a lot more to it than that. That was a huge issue And then some people are addicted to work.

David Lowry:

When you're addicted you may be thinking you're talking to a person about one thing or another, but their mind could be on their addiction. They may be wanting to get rid of you so that they can participate in their addiction. It's really very sad, Don, that these things happen. And, of course, most of us are not psychologists or mental health workers to know how to deal with any of that. But when we talk about desensitization, I mentioned earlier, when we hear about people doing things that sort of shock us, don't be surprised there's an addiction behind it because it's widespread out there. Millions of people check themselves in every year to figure out how to do something with the thing that's bothering them.

Don Drew:

I've got a few stats here. Apparently, according to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration, almost 38 percent of all Americans struggle with some form of illicit drug use. That seems massive.

David Lowry:

These things are real.

Don Drew:

The Surgeon General's offices reporting that 67 million Americans admitted to binge drinking. And okay, so that's 67 million out of roughly 350 million. That's still...

David Lowry:

That's a lot of

Don Drew:

people. That's that's a massive number.

David Lowry:

And that doesn't mean all those binge drinkers are addicted to alcohol, but it does mean that they can get in trouble, and admit to doing things they know are are harmful. We tell you this because the more you know, the more you can be aware, I'm in over my head with somebody. I can't figure it out, and quite honestly, it could be an addiction. Hopefully it will make you a little more compassionate. But also, don't be afraid to point them in a helpful direction. That's sometimes the kindest thing you can do is say, I Don't know anything about alcoholism, but I'm more than happy to go with you to your first AA meeting, or I'm happy to introduce you to some of my friends who work with this.

Don Drew:

One of my favorite techniques, David, for desensitization is what's known as the reframing technique. And I think it has a lot to do with the fact that all of us tell stories. This can be a part of addictions, but it's also part of the bigger picture of how we desensitize ourselves to people who are offering negative stimulant and so forth. And reframing technique essentially says all of us tell stories about ourselves. We do it as well. Let's say I come in in the office like I do here. And we're getting ready to do our show and you're obviously angry and upset about something. Okay. And immediately I'm going to start trying to develop interpretations or stories about why you are angry. And I might say, Oh, he's angry because I was five minutes late.

David Lowry:

Yes.

Don Drew:

And that becomes a story, which may or may not be true at all. It may have no factor in it whatsoever. But now I've convinced myself that the reason you're mad is because of me. And the reason you're mad because of me is I was five minutes late and so on. Part of reframing is breaking down that story and opening our minds to their possibility that there are other stories to be told. And that the one we're telling ourselves is not necessarily true.

David Lowry:

Exactly. I wish we could make a rule that we would take the most charitable interpretation of something that we can make instead of always looking for the most negative interpretation. I heard a person one time say to me, they said, this person, it's like they made an effigy of me and hung me out because they just believe the worst things about me. And we do that with people sometimes. We see the very worst in them instead of saying. Maybe they didn't really mean it that way.

Don Drew:

A fellow who I knew at the university received a promotion or an award or something, I Don't remember what it was, I Don't remember a lot of the details, but I sent him a brief email and I just said congratulations on winning the award. And he responded with a very blistering email, accusing me of being facetious for him. It's like I didn't really mean it or something.

David Lowry:

And, you did, huh? You really meant it.

Don Drew:

I saw that he won the award and I wanted to, congratulate him. Anyway, I got up and went over to his office and talked to him and I apologized, but I said I meant, I really meant what I said. Yeah. Sometimes we just do that. I'm right in this case. I'm saying somebody else, but I'm sure I have done it many times in my life as well. Jump to the worst possible conclusion.

David Lowry:

The last one that I want to talk about today on desensitization is what we call the principle of imperfection. And here's the thing. Whenever I make a mistake, I want people to be kind and gentle with me and to say, Oh yeah, you didn't mean that. Don't think anything about it. I know you, David. You would never really intentionally try to hurt anybody. But for some reason, when other people hurt me, I go right for the jugular, like that is a terrible person. They should fire that person. They need to get rid of people like that. In other words. I don't have much mercy for other people sometimes. And we have to realize, no, I'm imperfect too. I make these mistakes. One of the best things for having a peaceful life, I think, through all this desensitization talk, is to realize that I've made my share of mistakes. I could have a doctorate in mistake making. I've got to be generous to other people and always hold open the process that I can misunderstand them. I Don't know what's going on. I'm not going to take it personally and to be curious because maybe there's a way I can help.

Don Drew:

Yeah, I'm remembering back when I was in my mid to late twenties, and my wife and I had some friends. They were the first friends that we had close friends that we had to divorce. And just like you, I was raised in a church where divorce was always a bad thing.

David Lowry:

Yeah.

Don Drew:

Somebody had to be to blame because you wanted to be able to justify that you were the victim of the divorce. Somebody had to be bad. Somebody had to be the wrong person. One of the things I've learned over the years, hard learned lessons, that there may be somebody who did ultimately a really stupid thing, but generally speaking, those stupid things, are byproduct of a bunch of other things. There's a whole lot more involved in any conflict, in any divorce, in any breakup, in whatever. And it's important for us to give that grace and understanding that everybody plays a part. Some maybe better at correcting or overcoming their faults or the things they're doing wrong. And yet, at the same time, there is no, no fault.

David Lowry:

Which is a really important part of we call the principle imperfection. So Don, I've Done mediation work. I ask people sometime, in this disagreement you have, what percent do you think is your fault and what percent do you think is their fault? And I do this with each person apart from the other person.

Don Drew:

To actually get them to place a number on it.

David Lowry:

You place a number on it. Out of a hundred percent, how much of this do you own and how much of them? And you know what they always tell me? It's a hundred percent the other person. They never accept anything!

Don Drew:

Yeah.

David Lowry:

But here's the thing. That's is not true. Nearly always we have something to contribute to the problems we're facing with other people. We do.

Don Drew:

So everybody needs to assume responsibility for their part in the conflict, no matter how small they think it might be. So why should someone who contributed only a small amount be held fully responsible for their part?

David Lowry:

If you're 10 percent responsible for the conflict between you and another you're 100 percent responsible for taking care of that 10 percent.

Don Drew:

Yeah, I get that. An important point draws to a close is understanding a problem doesn't mean we necessarily overlook or ignore it. Just because we take pause, reframe or whatever, that's managing our response, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we have to overlook or ignore it does it?

David Lowry:

No, not at all. But if we can maintain our sense of composure, our sense of curiosity, our willingness not to think the worst of the other person, our willingness to understand that in a conflict, we're probably going to see and hear some things that we wish we didn't see and hear and let those things go, we'll move on through that dance of conflict until we finally get to a more reasonable place and where a person can say I'm sorry, too. I'm sorry for what I said and we can find our way a happier relationship. Maybe a restored relationship is what we're really going for. If it's possible.

Don Drew:

What we're recommending then is that we work to remove shock value, we may feel as we uncover flaws in ourselves and others. And specifically today, we've talked about others, but also recognizing flaws in ourselves. And that this ability to desensitize us, and be desensitized to that stimuli helps us be better peacemakers, develop a higher quality of compassion, empathy and so on, and that this can really be foundational to helping us deal with conflict.

David Lowry:

I know this sounds easy, but it works hard. But it is so worthwhile to develop in your life. So as you find yourself less shocked when you see conflict coming, it actually becomes a little thing that you get better at where you can bring conflicts to a close pretty quickly. It doesn't have to drag on for two days or a week or a month or ruin your relationship. It might be something you can solve in five minutes. If you hold on and don't allow yourself to be overcome by all of the feelings that may be going on inside of you and allow this desensitization to take place. You might be surprised how quickly disagreements resolve themselves. All right. That's it for today.

Don Drew:

Thanks. Thanks, David. Appreciate it. Thanks to all our listeners for

David Lowry:

Thank you Don..

Don Drew:

listening to us here on Peaceful Life Radio, and we wish you a great week ahead.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Dr. David Lowry

Co-host
Head Shot

Dr. Don Drew

Co-host