Maximizing Volunteer Impact: Insights from Jonathan Malm

Maximizing Volunteer Impact: Insights from Jonathan Malm

In this engaging episode of Peaceful Life Radio, hosts David Lowry and Don Drew welcome entrepreneur and author Jonathan Malm. Jonathan shares his insights on creating meaningful volunteer experiences, stressing the importance of community, setting healthy boundaries, and maintaining a sense of humility. He discusses challenges unique to older volunteers, the significance of mental and emotional rest, and how to avoid burnout. Jonathan also introduces his books, 'Don't Burn Out, Burn Bright' and 'The Volunteer Survival Guide,' offering practical advice for volunteers and leaders. Tune in to learn how to contribute effectively and joyfully in your volunteer roles.

00:00 Introduction to Peaceful Life Radio
00:31 Meet Jonathan Malm, Entrepreneur and Author
01:00 Creating an Excellent Volunteer Experience
01:59 Volunteering in the Second Half of Life
05:19 Avoiding Burnout: Healthy Boundaries and Rest
06:34 The Volunteer Survival Guide
09:33 Leadership and Volunteer Management
12:01 Tools and Resources for Volunteers
13:02 Recognizing and Addressing Burnout
15:29 The Importance of Teamwork in Volunteering
18:29 Jonathan Malm's Latest Works and Digital Opportunities
20:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Visit the Peaceful Life Radio website for more information. Peaceful Life Productions LLP produces this podcast, which helps nonprofits and small businesses share their stories and expertise through accessible and cost-effective podcasts and websites. For more information, please contact us at info@peacefullifeproductions.com.

Transcript

Jonathan Malm: 0:29

A lot of times leaders of volunteers are so focused on, checking off the to-do list items and making sure all the volunteers do all the things and they don't reinforce the community aspect, the fun aspect, the am I doing work to do work or does it actually matter?

David Lowry: 0:45

Hello everyone and welcome to Peaceful Life Radio. That was Jonathan Malm just now. He's our guest on our program today, and it's a very exciting show. I'm David Lowry, and with me is Don Drew. Don, how are you doing?

Don Drew: 0:57

I'm doing great, David, and we want to welcome all our listeners today. Jonathan is an entrepreneur and author, helping churches figure out how to best treat and utilize volunteers, provide hospitality, avoid burnout, and use social media effectively. He lives in San Antonio, Texas with his wife and two young boys. And he has a very interesting website, by the way. I was able to find that he has obsessions. Amongst his obsessions are Nitro cold brew and Cajun food. So, Hey Jonathan. Welcome to Peaceful Life Radio. We're glad to have you here today.

Jonathan Malm: 1:29

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Don Drew: 1:30

I want to start with what does it take to have an excellent volunteer experience?

Jonathan Malm: 1:35

Yeah, depending on your situation, sometimes you can be a little over enthusiastic and you can get into burnout. Or sometimes the person who's leading you can be a little over enthusiastic and try to get more from you than maybe you wanna give. So, I found that one of the best things, both from a volunteer perspective and from a leader perspective, is healthy boundaries. When I volunteer at my church, one of the things that I tell them is while I'm here you have me a hundred percent of the time. It's like you have all of me, a hundred percent whatever you need I'm there for it. But I'm not always gonna be there. Right? I'm not always volunteering. So, the boundaries, let me say yes joyfully and let me say no and not feel guilty about it, right? I can say yes. Happily, yes, I would love to do that. And then whenever I have to say no, it's because, no, I really shouldn't do that. And yeah, it's very intentional about setting boundaries. I think that's one of the best ways to really have a good volunteer experience.

David Lowry: 2:29

Jonathan, when we think of volunteering in the second half of life, so many of us are hoping to give back. We've had a rich life. We've experienced many things and we wanna leave a legacy of service, use that spare time instead of sitting down and watching TV or being bored or something like that. We wanna use our lives productively. Talk to us about some of the experiences that could be available for somebody who wants to volunteer and do something meaningful with their life while they're in their golden years.

Jonathan Malm: 3:01

I find that one of the problems with a volunteer leader working with people who are older is there's a lot of insecurity. If you're a young leader working with an older person. The older person has a lot of years of experience, a lot of wisdom, and sometimes that can feel threatening for a leader. One of the best things I would encourage anyone older to do is lead with a sense of humility. Obviously you have wisdom, obviously you have that, but there's this sort of thing that needs to happen where you approach it almost asking. It's like this kind of this wisdom thing you do whenever you're, you, it's almost like leading from the bottom right? You ask questions to get them where you want them to go, right? Not in a manipulative way, but understanding that there's a lot of insecurity that can sometimes be involved with leaders. Because otherwise, I think sometimes what happens is you get relegated to a less influential role. Like, oh yeah, we want you to be a nice greeter. We want you to smile and wave because it's easy to dismiss people's wisdom and what they have to offer if you feel threatened by them. So there are a lot of opportunities. All that said, don't just Settle for being the smiling greeter that is so often, especially in church roles. You can have real influence. You can really have an impact, but it often takes that kind of humility that, teach teachability. But it's even just a posture of humility toward people that don't know as much as you. Never lead the way with answers. Lead the way with questions and that gives the opportunity to have a lot of influence.

Don Drew: 4:30

In my case, I volunteer at the local zoo quite a bit. And I went in there with the attitude that I was going to try to consciously not take a leadership position, which was actually challenging for me. I was working almost exclusively with a bunch of young people, and I wanted to make sure that they had a chance to find their own way to lead and so forth without me necessarily jumping in and trying to do something, even though sometimes I could see a better way to do it.

Jonathan Malm: 4:58

If you have years of experience of having climbed corporate ladders or have dealt with people that, like I've seen the situation 50 different ways. And I have the solution. And that can feel threatening to younger people because it's a lot of insecurity. I've noticed that arrogance or bravado, or whatever you wanna call it, is usually coming from a place of insecurity. The almost ironic thing about leadership is sometimes when you encourage insecure people, they become less insecure and give you more input into their lives. I've experienced that so many times where you know what I thought I should kind of hammer them down. As a leader, I thought I should confront that arrogance head on and realizing that they actually needed encouragement to grow into a role of leadership.

David Lowry: 5:42

So many volunteers are driven by passion, and sometimes that can lead to over commitment. You mentioned earlier that you have boundaries, but I also think it's good for volunteers to know their boundaries. You have another book called Don't Burn Out, burn Bright that I think might have a little something to do as well about our work as volunteers.

Jonathan Malm: 6:03

Most definitely. Me and my co-writer, we've found 10 things, 10 pillars of health that will keep you from burning out, right? One of those is rest, obviously. But in our modern world, whenever you're a farmer and you were working the fields, you needed rest for your body because you were actively engaged in physical labor and you needed rest. We are not doing as much physical labor nowadays, so we don't need as much rest for our bodies. In fact, we should probably be working out a little bit more. We should probably activate our bodies a little bit more. But what we need instead is mental, emotional rest. A way to rest our minds. And unfortunately some things in our lives can simulate rest, but not actually provide rest. Social media for me is one of those where I can spend two hours scrolling on social media. It's downtime. It's unwinding time. But I don't feel rested. I don't feel any more energized. That's not rest to me. So it's very important that we choose our rest carefully. How are we resting? Are you getting your rest time and real rest?

Don Drew: 7:04

Jonathan, the book called The Volunteer Survival Guide: your question and answer resource for volunteering, by Baker Books, and in there you talk about different reasons why people volunteer and almost always we gravitate toward the idea of wanting to make a difference, have an impact, do something like that. You specifically mention wanting to serve God since you, you work a lot with churches and so on. But then also people have other motivations for volunteering, making friends, or having fun just getting out of the house. So is it possible that sometimes we assume what somebody really wants from a voluntary experience is different than their own reality?

Jonathan Malm: 7:43

I think a lot of times in churches our goal is to accomplish tasks. And this person signed up to volunteer because they wanna accomplish tasks. And honestly, that's not really the case. We don't just wanna accomplish tasks. We wanna do work that matters, but there is that friendship element too, that I want to be involved with people doing something that matters. It's the community aspect of it. And it's unfortunate that a lot of times leaders of volunteers don't recognize that fact. They are so focused on, checking off the to-do list items and making sure all the volunteers do all the things and they don't reinforce the community aspect, the fun aspect, the am I doing work to do work or does it actually matter? Is there something significant to what I'm doing?

David Lowry: 8:27

I think it's possible for volunteers to fall into this trap of finding another job. And and for people in the second half of life, they're not really looking for another job so much as they are something that's meaningful, they feel that they're contributing to. But I really appreciate you pointing out that sometimes people in paid positions have a great temptation sometimes to think of volunteers as, oh, these are the people that are gonna help me get all this stuff done, like an hourly employee or something like that. And that might not be the experience you were going for at all. One of the things I spent a lot of time with many years ago, Jonathan, was Habitat for Humanity. I remember a lot of volunteers coming through the organization. Some of them wanted to visit with people hoping to receive a home from Habitat for Humanity. Others wanted to sling a hammer or paint a room, and feel they had contributed to building it. Still others wanted to be in on the planning and fundraising.

Jonathan Malm: 9:25

Sometimes as a volunteer you can't rely on the leader getting it, unfortunately. So sometimes you might need to get that encouragement or get that significance for yourself. A lot of roles are a little bit more background. They're maybe not directly relating to people. So ask for stories. Hey, I worked on that project. What came of that? Sometimes you have to gather that. Significance for yourself. Because unfortunately, again the leader is worried about getting their tasks done and they're not always realizing, oh, my volunteers need something. They need a little boost from me. They need a little encouragement. They need that significance bump from me.

Don Drew: 10:03

Yeah, you bring up an interesting dynamic here, and that is that the leader, of whatever the organization is, the leader needs certain things done. And quite often the volunteer has perhaps skills that they want to use that they feel like they're really good at and so forth. And would it do leadership better to spend more time asking volunteers a few more questions about what is most important to them, what they want to do?

Jonathan Malm: 10:26

A hundred percent. A again, I think most people are willing to do whatever it takes. Like whatever you want me to do, as long as it's not something dreadful, something that's just. mind numbing, right? But I wanna feel like what I do matters. I wanna feel like I'm succeeding in the role. People wanna feel like they're like, do I matter? Do I have value? Do am I successful? Is it, am I doing a good job? I. And yeah it's worth knowing your volunteers well enough to know what is significant to them. Knowing how a volunteer feels appreciated is really important.

David Lowry: 10:59

Another thing that's important is training. Sometimes when organizations ask for volunteers, they forget that really ought to be a part of the formula. If you're going to actually ask people to come in and do stuff, you ought to train them. Years ago I ran a volunteer radio station in Oklahoma City. And it was a lot of fun in inviting local volunteers to come in and host radio programs and shows and that was part of the draw of the radio station. But you have to train them. Very few people coming to your radio station oh yeah, I know exactly how to run an audio board and how to entertain people on this sort of thing. And so many other organizations too shouldn't forget the fact people need to be trained. That's an important thing, you owe it to them.

Jonathan Malm: 11:40

One of the things that often happens is people who are good doers, are then promoted to leadership. But the problem is you need to start shifting. What you do when you go to leadership. You're no longer the one doing, you're the one encouraging and equipping the people doing. And it's a hard shift to make for a lot of people where I like doing stuff. I'm successful at this job. I like getting my hands dirty, but now I'm in charge of the people that are supposed to be doing that. And if we're not careful, we can spend 20% of our time encouraging people and 80% of our time doing tasks. And we really need to flip that where it's 80% of the time encouraging, equipping, and only 20% doing tasks right? You have to work with people. I would encourage leaders to spend 80% of your time working with people, encouraging the people, knowing your people, texting your people, writing, encouraging handwritten notes to your people, stuff like that.

David Lowry: 12:31

What are some of the tools and resources you've found in working with volunteers that could help other people in their work either as a volunteer or people who are leading volunteers?

Jonathan Malm: 12:41

There's not a lot unfortunately so that's what I've been trying to make those resources. I made a a book called Love Your Volunteers. That's a cheat sheet on how to do that. It gives people, note prompts that you can text people during the week. Prayer prompts, again, if you're a, if you're a Christian, to pray for your volunteers. Huddle ideas. That thing before you do the thing where you get together and everyone gets on the same page. Some ideas on how to hold a volunteer huddle. Just a lot of different resources, a lot of different tools to help leaders do that well. But it's tough. There aren't a lot of resources out there. The goal for the Volunteer Survival Guide was something that we wrote more for leaders to be able to give their volunteers to say, Hey, here's how you're going to thrive here. Here's how you're going to really get the most from this experience. Because you should it's not all giving. There is a value in when you volunteer, you get. You get that boost. It feels good. It feels exciting. And it's okay to look for that.

Don Drew: 13:32

I did a little research on burnout before this program, and I was looking at one person's ideas about how you look for burnout in volunteers. And there were four things they highlighted. One was a lack of energy and low mood. The second was irritability that could be attributed to many different things. So as a leader, you're not necessarily gonna be able to attribute that to their volunteerism. But the last two I thought were interesting. It was difficulty focusing and procrastination. And I thought about how in working with volunteers in the past, how sometimes somebody you've been able to count on them to do things when they say they will all of a sudden you find that they're not following through, not completing their task and so on. That's probably a pretty good sign of burnout to look for. Would you agree?

Jonathan Malm: 14:17

Burnout is one of those tough things. I equate it to anxiety or depression, right? There are times in life where I feel depressed or I feel anxiety. Does that mean that I have a cycle or a clinical diagnosis of anxiety or depression? There's instances or there's cycles, there's downward spirals. And with burnout, there are seasons of life where I'm burnt out. I'm in a crazy season right with a toddler and a baby where I feel exhausted regularly. There are probably some times that I drop the ball and that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to burnout, right? I am burnt out, but I'm not in a cycle of burnout. But then there are times when I've been going down this road for too long. So, one of the best things you can do is talk to your volunteers, say, Hey, here's what I'm sensing, what's going on, not assuming, not casting judgment on anything. One of the things in Don't Burn Out, Burn Bright we talk about is you no longer feel brilliant at the basics. The things that you used to be like, I can always deliver on this, I can always kill it with this one thing that I do really well. But suddenly it doesn't feel like I'm brilliant at it. It feels like it's a struggle for me. That's one of those things for sure. But again it's, there's seasons where that's normal or then there's actually burnout and we have to be able to distinguish that.

David Lowry: 15:23

When you have people volunteering I think there's this initial surge of, I wanna help out any way I can. I wanna be there for you, and I wanna give all my talents and abilities. I've got so much to offer. And then there's this cooling off period where it's like, Hey, this is, there's a lot of stuff to do here.

Jonathan Malm: 15:41

The honeymoon is over.

David Lowry: 15:42

Yeah, the honeymoon is over. I don't know if I signed up for all of that. Let's see if we can create a few reasonable rules for volunteers. You mentioned one of them, come in humbly. Don't assume you know everything. Don't assume you know more than the people who are doing the job every day for a living and you may have done other things similar to that.

Jonathan Malm: 15:59

Honestly, one of the things that I tell people that maybe feel a little bit discouraged in their role is often we look for tasks that are of interest to us. And that can work. That can work really well. But another thing that I encourage people is, if you're not loving your role, even if it's something you enjoy doing, I would almost recommend you, get to know the leadership team or the people in charge and find someone that you love and that you respect or find a team that, wow, that team sounds fun. Even though I might not necessarily be skilled in that area, or that might not normally be the type of thing that I'm drawn to. I would look for the leadership and team that I wanna join because again, I mean they say teamwork makes the dream work, right? That teamwork aspect can make you feel alive. My wife works as a physical therapist and she likes the work at some hospitals better than others. But I find that she comes back more energized from the place where she doesn't enjoy the work as much, but she enjoys the team more. She enjoys her boss, she enjoys the people she works with. It's the same thing with volunteering, right? If you can get on a team where, man, I love these people. I look forward to being around them. Even if we're not doing anything, I just look forward to being around them. That's huge.

Don Drew: 17:04

One of the things I really love about my volunteer experience is that I am able to use certain skills I already have, which is nice. But I also on a daily basis are I am able to learn new things, and I like that combination. And of course, not everybody's gonna be like me. But taking charge, if you will of your own volunteer experience, I think is part of what you're saying is that take charge of it, figure out what it is that means something to you and work towards that end. And if it's working as part of a team, that can be a very important motivator.

Jonathan Malm: 17:32

Yeah, usually the reason we volunteer is because we're drawn to something that happened to us in our past, right? Somebody made us feel important. Or somebody somebody came through for us when we felt like, things were impossible and they did something for us. So, there's a very special moment usually that happens in our past that we're hoping to repeat for someone else. And so really staying keyed in with why do I volunteer? What moment am I trying to recreate for other people? Then look for ways to do that. Again the role that is given to you in a church for instance, you might be tasked with parking cars, right? Like it's not a very exciting role, especially in Texas heat to, to tell a car where to park, right? But that's not really what you're giving people when you're parking cars. Instead, what you're doing is you're the first welcoming face when people drive onto a parking lot.

David Lowry: 18:17

Another thing to keep in mind is, if you're going to volunteer, be consistent. People count on you. If you decide to volunteer at church, they ought to be able to count on you to be there. The people gotta be able to depend on you. If you're teaching a kid to read at the local school they really need you to be there when they have those reading periods. Because they're really counting on you. So, take it seriously and show up and don't volunteer for more than can actually do. And don't be afraid to go slow in the beginning.

Jonathan Malm: 18:47

I think it goes back to that idea of tell them when you can be there and then when you're there, be there, like a hundred percent. When I'm volunteering at my church, they're like, Hey, Jonathan, I know you're doing this right now, that's your role this morning, but you could you do this for us too? And I'm like, yes!

Don Drew: 18:59

Jonathan, people can find out about you@wwwjonathanmalm.com. That's M A L M dot com. They can find about you and your books. Can you tell us about your latest work?

Jonathan Malm: 19:11

So, I have a new book coming out may 1st. I don't know when this will go live, called Likable Leader. It's primarily, for leaders. It's how to become a leader that people love to follow. My most recent book that I came out with was Don't Burn Out, burn Bright focusing more on the leadership aspect, but we made sure that there was a lot of good nuggets there for anyone involved in any, to any sort of leadership. But Yeah, then this, the Volunteer Survival Guide is one that I think for this audience would make a lot of sense to pick up. It's on Amazon. It's very inexpensive. It's a very short, read. It's meant to be very digestible, very highlightable. Not a lot of fluff. So I encourage you to pick that up.

David Lowry: 19:46

Do you have any digital opportunities at your church? Are there other organizations that you know of that have digital opportunities?

Jonathan Malm: 19:52

Yeah, there are a ton of opportunities digitally, and it's fun. It's kind of crazy, but it's kind of fun too the new landscape of digital that we have in this world. My church has a whole media team. It's probably like 20 people that are doing photography, coming up with ideas for posts on social media, a ton of things. We're in a digital world right now and a lot of people are trying to figure out how we reach people in these spaces. The fun thing is that every social media platform has its own demographic. Facebook is a little bit more of the older crowd. Instagram is the millennial crowd. TikTok is the Gen Z crowd. So you can find the social media platform that you love and thrive in. And, there's need for moderators to make sure that the content is in line with, the standards for a group. There are tons of opportunities like that. Yeah.

David Lowry: 20:37

So many opportunities to volunteer. Whatever it is you're interested in, I assure you there is somebody out there who needs a helping hand and if you are willing to make a difference in your life you should do it.

Don Drew: 20:50

Jonathan Malm, author of the Volunteer Survival Guide, your Question and Answer Resource for Volunteering and other books related to volunteerism and volunteer leadership. Thank you for being with us here on Peaceful Life Radio. We so appreciate you.

Jonathan Malm: 21:04

Glad to be here.