Peaceful Life Radio
Welcome to Peaceful Life Radio—your trusted companion for navigating the second half of life with wisdom, intention, and grace. As the fast-paced seasons of career-building and family-raising transition into a new chapter, it’s time to focus on you—your purpose, your well-being, and your legacy. Join hosts Don Drew and David Lowry as they share inspiring stories, expert insights, and practical strategies to help you embrace this transformative phase with confidence and joy. From cultivating deeper relationships to fostering emotional resilience and discovering renewed purpose, Peaceful Life Radio empowers you to make these years your most fulfilling yet. Tune in, and let’s embark on this journey together—because the best chapters of life are still ahead.
Peaceful Life Radio
Dr Ann Buscho - Navigating Gray Divorce
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode of Peaceful Life Radio, hosts David Lowry and Don Drew welcome Dr. Ann Buscho, a retired licensed psychologist and author, to discuss the intricacies of 'gray divorce,' or divorce after age 50. Dr. Buscho shares her expertise on the unique emotional and practical challenges faced by older adults, the impact on adult children, ways to communicate effectively during this trying time, and the benefits of collaborative divorce. She provides valuable insights on how older adults can rebuild their lives post-divorce, emphasizing resilience, self-care, and financial literacy. The episode also covers Dr. Buscho's new book, 'The Parents Guide to Bird Nesting,' which offers a child-centered approach to co-parenting during separation and divorce.
00:00 Introduction to Dr. Ann Buscho
00:48 Welcoming Dr. Ann Buscho
01:59 Understanding Gray Divorce
03:04 Emotional Impact on Adult Children
06:16 Collaborative Divorce Explained
09:43 Post-Divorce Realities and Support Systems
16:50 Financial Challenges for Women in Gray Divorce
20:32 Bird Nesting: A Child-Centered Co-Parenting Solution
22:08 Ann Buscho's Personal Life and Future Plans
22:55 Conclusion and Resources
https://annbuscho.com
Transcript: https://peacefulliferadio.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Dr-Ann-Buscho-Navigating-Gray-Divorce.pdf
Visit the Peaceful Life Radio website for more information. Peaceful Life Productions LLP produces this podcast, which helps nonprofits and small businesses share their stories and expertise through accessible and cost-effective podcasts and websites. For more information, please contact us at info@peacefullifeproductions.com.
Divorce after age 50 is much more complicated and people are usually not prepared for the complexities that divorce will bring. By the time people are in their fifties, they've built an estate of some kind. They've probably had children, they've got retirement accounts or investments. They're dealing with maybe adult kids and their own aging. Then in the midst of all of that to get divorced is hugely overwhelming to most people, especially for the people who don't see it coming and aren't prepared for it.
David Lowry:That was Dr. Ann Buscho, a retired licensed psychologist. An author, she writes for Psychology Today. She writes about gray divorce co-parenting. Ann is such a wise person, I can't wait to talk to her. Hello everybody. I'm David Lowry. Welcome to Peaceful Life Radio. And with me is my good friend Don Drew. Don, how are you?
Don Drew:David, I'm doing really well, and I have been looking forward to our guests this week, Dr. Ann Buscho. She's a licensed psychologist, author of Parents Guide to Bird Nesting, a Child-centered Solution to Co-Parenting during separation and divorce, writes a blog for the magazine, Psychology Today called A Better Divorce, and is here with us today to discuss what is commonly known as gray divorce, when people divorce later in life. She has recently retired. So congratulations for that. When we were communicating prior to the show, Ann told me that although she has done a lot of divorce work, she always thinks of herself as a peacemaker since she has encouraged people to mediate their divorces or if necessary, work with collaborative divorce professionals. Ann has worked with children and families in private practice in California for three decades, addressing all things related to divorce, keeping families out of court, co-parenting, collaborative divorce, helping parents create parenting plans and coaching. She says divorce doesn't have to be viewed as a failure. Ann Busho, welcome to Peaceful Life Radio.
Ann Buscho:Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
David Lowry:Ann, what caught our attention originally was an article you wrote in your blog for Psychology Today. It was called The Seven Perils of Divorce, Late in Life. And so we'd like to tap into some of your expertise and other aspects of Gray Divorce in just a bit. You write that gray divorce presents unique, emotional and practical challenges compared to divorces earlier in life. In your experience, which of these challenges tends to be the most underestimated by couples at the onset.
Ann Buscho:Divorce after age 50 is much more complicated and people are usually not prepared for the complexities that divorce will bring. By the time people are in their fifties, they've built an estate of some kind. They've probably had children, they've got retirement accounts or investments. They're dealing with maybe adult kids and their own aging. Then in the midst of all of that to get divorced is hugely overwhelming to most people, especially for the people who don't see it coming and aren't prepared for it.
Don Drew:Ann, there's so many things we'd like to talk to you about. Your article touches on the emotional toll gray divorce takes on adult children. How can parents approaching a gray divorce best communicate with their adult children to reduce long-term relational damage?
Ann Buscho:I'm so glad you asked that question because it's so important. I think parents often turn to their adult children as confidants, and that's a big mistake. It's really important for kids to be left out of the divorce process. They don't need to know the details. They don't need to know how much money, which person got, or what the spousal support payments are going to be. They don't need to take sides. Taking sides and figuring out who to blame and who's wrong, that's really hard and it's very traumatic even for adult children.
David Lowry:I'm a victim, I guess you could say, or a participant in gray divorce myself. It was a very traumatic time and some of the things that you've touched on were definitely at play right there. I think people greatly underestimate the emotional toll on both partners when this occurs and also children, who are approaching adulthood left wondering what in the world is going on here? What are some of the dynamics at play And what can we do to make that less painful for all concerned?
Ann Buscho:Adult children, have this idea of home. Where's home? And in a divorce, very often the family home has to be sold because it's the biggest asset that the family has. So kids are left feeling homeless. Then again, if one parent is able to keep the home. Then the other parent has a new place that doesn't feel like home to adult children. So that's hard. Again, it's important for parents to not let their kids get caught up in taking sides. The kids will ask questions. They will want to know the details, but I would firmly advise people not to share details of the divorce and encourage kids to maintain their relationship with both parents.
Don Drew:That's a great point. Divorce later in life is clearly going to disrupt shared dreams or retirement plans and so on. What would you offer to someone who feels like those dreams have been taken away overnight?
Ann Buscho:Yeah, that's hard. When one person wants the divorce, they probably have a vision of what life is going to be like after the divorce. They could be wrong about that, but they probably have a vision of what they expect, that they're gonna be happier, they're gonna be in a new relationship or whatever that is. For the person who didn't want the divorce or didn't see it coming, it can be just shattering, just devastating. And that person is going to really rebuild their lives after the divorce and that's going to take some time. I encourage people to hold on to the knowledge and the hope that their lives can be rebuilt, and it will be different. If you thought you were gonna get an RV and do a road trip with your spouse around the country when you're both retired, that may not be the vision that actually comes to be. But there can be other ways to look at the future with hope, pleasure, and some joy.
Don Drew:One of the things that I really appreciate about your work is the concept of collaborative divorce as potentially more respectful, and a less adversarial path. But what kinds of couples are best suited for this approach and what pitfalls should they watch for, even within that framework?
Ann Buscho:It's a good question because not many people really know what collaborative divorce is. In collaborative divorce, the professionals are specifically trained for this model. It is a good model for people who need a little extra support. Mediation is not enough support for some people. The mediator is neutral and can't give advice and can't really support one or the other. In a collaborative divorce, each partner has their own attorney. It's not adversarial. They agree to work together, so it is a kind of mediative process, but each partner has an attorney to advise them, to coach them, to teach them negotiation skills. in collaborative divorce, there are often other professionals. I was a divorce coach in collaborative divorces, so I worked with one or both parties on communication issues, learning how to do some problem solving without arguing, processing emotions and so on. And that's a better job for a mental health professional than it is for a lawyer. And that's another positive part of collaborative divorce. My favorite collaborative divorce cases are where couples came to coaching first with the intention of communicating better and establishing some commitments for the future in terms of communication and relationships with the adult children. They had to work through some anger and some breakdowns in their communication because, after all, that's probably what led to the divorce. But they also wanted to put those things ahead of their own emotions, their kids, the future. They wanted to put those things ahead of their own emotions before the divorce process started. I think after the divorce process starts, the process itself is so triggering. In the collaborative process we work hard to keep people in a constructive dialogue and listening to each other. I don't know that happens in litigated divorces very often. And post-divorce, if issues come up, for example, with children, parents might decide to come back to counseling to work those out together. With my ex and I, we did not come back to counseling, but we did move on. I think we both felt like we moved on and that's what enabled us to come together. And now, we hug each other when we meet. It's wonderful. We've gotten to a place where we're friends and that's really nice. There's almost always a neutral financial specialist because most states require full disclosure of finances. A neutral financial specialist can work with both parties together to help create that document that's required by law and look at how property, assets or debts might be divided. They don't give financial advice. They're not financial planners per se in this process. They're an integral part of the collaborative divorce process.
David Lowry:It sounds like wise advice to me. After the divorce there's all kinds of problems that crop up as well. Social isolation for some people. Identity shifts. Maybe health problems follow a gray divorce. What support systems or practices have you found to be helpful to individuals navigating post-divorce realities?
Ann Buscho:I guess it depends what the needs are, but I would say that after 50, which I actually don't consider old, the kinds of issues that can come up are losing friendships, mutual friends, losing activities with friends or religious communities, clubs or social groups. Sometimes in divorces after fifty, one person or maybe both already have health issues, and those need to be addressed during the divorce. So supports would be tailored to the needs of the person.
Don Drew:Just so our listeners know, the seven perils in the article we referenced that you wrote, are finances, adult children, social disruptions, health, living arrangements and lifestyle, estate planning, and the divorce process itself. Is there anything you might want to add to this list?
Ann Buscho:The divorce process itself is pretty critical because that's the one thing that people rarely expect to be as difficult as it is. When people are emotionally hijacked during a divorce, it's very hard to think clearly. And it's a time when you need to make kind of life changing decisions that are going to have an impact for a very long time. But if you're dealing with rage or guilt or grief, you're not gonna be making the best well thought through decisions during that time. So I encourage people, if they have the option, to hold off on starting the process and take a little bit of time to work through their emotions so they can come to the table better prepared to do negotiating. In the end, it will cost less because arguing is expensive. When you're arguing in front of lawyers, they're racking up money. The clock is ticking. So it's way more helpful for people to take time to get grounded and prepared for the divorce process.
David Lowry:You've written that divorce after 50 often reflects diverging life goals. Some people are seeking stability. Others want novelty and creative activity. What strategies can long-term marriage couples use to identify and address these shifts before maybe even reaching a gray divorce tipping point?
Ann Buscho:Couples counseling can help with that. And, if they can talk about these things in couples counseling with some facilitation to maybe come up with some ways to incorporate both people's needs and interests and goals, then that can help.
Don Drew:You've mentioned a number of things people can do to rebuild after divorce. What are some of these and what makes them important?
Ann Buscho:Well, it's about resilience. It's about surviving the biggest life crisis you may ever experience and coming back with some resilience. So that means not isolating, seeking out your friends and family for support, focusing on the things that maybe you used to do that you used to love, that maybe you gave up in your relationship because you got busy with children or career and going back and reclaiming some of those interests or finding new ones, finding new hobbies, that's important. It's also about taking control of your finances. It's more of an issue for women often because traditionally women have had less involvement in the finances of the family. And women need to get the help they need to understand their finances, to be able to do some planning for the future, and rebuild a life that brings them joy. The other piece I might add to that and answer to your question is, one of the key components of a collaborative divorce is identifying each person's goals and interests so that as the divorce is resolved, as the issues are negotiated, those goals and interests are kept in mind so that people can make decisions that support each person's goals and interests. Other than that, focusing on the future, not dwelling on the past, focusing on building a future that you look forward to that allows you to fulfill some dreams or some goals of yours. What I did after my divorce, I was a traveler. I wanted to see the world. I did that and I think people very often post-divorce have opportunities that they didn't have perhaps in their marriage.
Don Drew:Two of them that you mentioned elsewhere is prioritizing self-care, which becomes really critical, obviously. But, the other one, I just love this one, rebuild your identity, rediscover who you are and what brings you joy. And one of the things about marriage is you've combined in many ways who you are with another person. And when that comes apart, you have to try and rediscover who you are. And of course if we're talking gray divorce, we're talking about people who have been together a long time, and that becomes extremely critical, doesn't it?
Ann Buscho:It does, it does. I think you think of yourself as half of a couple. If that's your identity, then post-divorce, you're no longer half of a couple, you're a whole person in yourself. And getting grounded in what makes you you is important. Also the self-compassion piece of that is important because a lot of people, post divorce, do a lot of second guessing. What did I do wrong? Maybe they did do something wrong. Maybe they did have an affair. Maybe they did fall into heavy drinking or something that upset the marriage. But it doesn't do any good post-divorce to beat yourself up. And it does help to process and work through the things you did wrong so you don't repeat those mistakes. But people will often second guess, not having done anything in particular questioning themselves. How could this have happened? What could I have done different? Self blame is very destructive.
David Lowry:Dr. Buscho, in the ideal world if people would actually listen to their counselors and psychologist advice, after a person goes through a divorce, what would you advise each person to do? Tell us some things post-divorce that you think you should be mindful of.
Ann Buscho:That's a good question. In a gray divorce the issues to be mindful of are your kids and how this is affecting them and how you can make it easier for them. That was the biggest issue in my divorce. I've been divorced for more than 30 years. And it's only been the last few years that my ex and I have been able to have Thanksgiving dinners together with all of our new spouses, children, and so on. And I think that does your kids a world of good. If you can do that sooner rather than later, that really helps kids feel like they haven't lost their family.
Don Drew:Ann, you've written about women's unique financial challenges in gray divorce. Can you share some of those financial challenges that you have found to be true?
Ann Buscho:Many of the older women that I've worked with during divorce have said things to me like, I just signed the tax return. I have no idea what was in it. Or My husband gave me an allowance and that's what I used to support the home. But had no idea where the money is, what it's doing, how it's being spent, no idea of a budget. So the biggest financial challenge is getting to a place where they can understand their finances and after the divorce, making a financial plan that's going to enable them to survive through the rest of their life. They probably need to have help with that. A financial planner would be a good investment if they can do that. They need to learn how to budget. They need to learn how to manage their own money so that it lasts. And they need investment support. A C-D-F-A a certified divorce financial analyst can help women understand what their current financial situation is. In my collaborative divorce cases, the CDFA spent a lot of time with clients going through things like the tax return, assets, debts, income, and so on and helping the wife understand the financial situation. At that point they may realize that they need to increase their income. They may need to go back to work, and that's really difficult for many of the women that I've worked with. I worked with one woman who had taught for one year before she got married, and 28 years later she's divorced. Teaching has changed. She's had to start all over again to go back into that kind of a career. So that can be a real challenge for women. If they leave the divorce with debt, they need help with how to reduce their debt, managing their spending, and maybe building some kind of nest egg, some kind of emergency fund for when something comes up, their car breaks down or they get sick, or they wanna help one of their kids.
Don Drew:You've written another article called Divorce or Keep It Together, What You Need to Know. You outline nine factors people should consider when deciding whether to stay or divorce. What decision making criteria might be different for those contemplating gray divorce compared to, say, younger couples?
Ann Buscho:What I've seen when I've worked with couples, the couples that finally do decide to stay together are the couples that are anticipating grandchildren, worrying about the loss of contact with either their children or grandchildren or extended family. They've invested a lot of time in those relationships, and the idea of losing those relationships is a big factor for older couples. The other factor is that after divorce, and particularly after gray divorce, most people have to downsize financially. The same amount of money in the family divided between two homes is not the same as all of that money in one home. And that's a factor. People that haven't worked, if you've had a stay at home mom or a stay at home dad, that person may have to go to work at the age of 55 or 60 for a job or go back to a career that you haven't had for 25 years. That's a big challenge too.
David Lowry:You've recently retired from working as a practicing psychologist and have a new granddaughter. Congratulations on that. And you also have a new book out. Congratulations on that as well. The Parents Guide to Bird Nesting, a Child Centered Solution to Co-parenting During Separation and Divorce. Tell us a little bit about this book.
Ann Buscho:My focus is very often on the children and how to reduce the harm or damage to kids and divorce. So bird nesting is the idea that the children stay in the family home and the parents take turns being in the home, being on and off duty. And this may be temporary or it may be long term. My ex and I actually did it for 15 months. I know people that have done it for many years. Sometimes people will do it while the divorce is in process and they know better at the end of the divorce where each one stands financially so that they can move on. Sometimes people want to keep their kids in the home until they finish school or some other milestone. Sometimes it's until the house is sold. What this means is each parent has to have a place to go when they're off duty, and that's very often a big question. Can they share an apartment offsite? Can they stay with friends or family? When we did it, my ex stayed with his new relationship, a woman that he had met, and I rented a room in a shared rental, which was really good for me at the time because I wasn't able to isolate that way, and it was inexpensive. When I've talked to kids whose parents have bird nested, they say the parents carried the burden of the divorce so that they didn't have to. And to me that is like the mantra, that is the slogan I would use. I advocate for bird nesting so that the kids don't have to do that going back and forth thing that they often have to do.
Drew:Ann what's next for you? And maybe tell us about your new granddaughter.
Ann Buscho:I have six grandchildren now and they take a lot of time. They're a big joy. It's not the same responsibility as when you're a parent. My granddaughter is just four months old and she is a joy. She is smiling and reaching for things and doing things that people do at that age. I have such a hard time remembering when my kids were little because it was an overwhelming time, and I had three little ones. This is more fun. I'm also traveling a lot. This summer I'm going to Uganda and Rwanda, and then to Israel. Later in the year I'm going to Hawaii. And at the end of the year, I'm doing a trip with my husband in the Caribbean. So these are things I get to do now that I'm retired.
Don Drew:That's wonderful! Ann has worked with families and people in all stages of life who are facing divorce. But as she has written, and I quote, Healing from divorce later in life, especially after a very long marriage, can be particularly challenging due to the unique life changes that come with it. However, it is possible to heal and find happiness in this new phase of life. If you or a loved one is facing this possibility, we suggest you check out Ann's blog, A Better Divorce on the Psychology Today website and her personal website at www dr ann Buscho.com. That's D-R-A-N-N-B-U-S-C-H-O dot com. Ann Buscho thank you for joining us on Peaceful Life Radio.
Ann Buscho:My pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me.
